Ian: I think – again, me and KJ actually talked about this a while back on our podcast. And I think it’s – so, I think for me, there’s a lot of things that are not working well just because everybody is in more of a safety zone where they’re more curious of what’s going on. And they have the information now to be like, “Oh, you know what, I really don’t need to really lose weight immediately.
I have all this time now to do the research, right, to do so.” But it’s also the fact that people are looking for a necessity. KJ explained it like what are important like the insurance, leads, when I talked to Oliver Kenyon he’s doing stuff for – people for Wills, you know. So, there are a lot of things where people actually kind of prep for the worst which is good and bad as well.
But in retrospect to their marketing and stuff is there’s so many other things that people are not really interested in like – even though now, like I thought adult dating would skyrocket. Which it did, but then there was more of an intimate relationship that where one of my other white label stuff was doing much, much, better, you know. So, it’s way more interesting for that.
And I think in this day and age, people just sit home. They have information – too much information that they can actually research for, “Oh, is this product will be like actually worth it?” They’ll spend a couple of hours to really, really, really, research it and then, you know what I mean? So…
About consumer behavior & Hot verticals
Renz: True. I mean – KJ. What about in terms of, you know, consumer behavior? And this is something very crucial and it’s – this also like, you know, segue to what Ian just mentioned. We do see, you know, consumers, you know, activity and are, you know, moving away from some verticals, let’s say, right? I mean in terms of like type of e-commerce. What do you think affected this and why we saw such a drop in e-commerce and what kind of other verticals have, you know, have the same drop as well?
KJ: Well, it’s natural. It’s natural, you know. If you consider ourselves as well I’m sure many of us would be thinking the same as consumers, the way consumers are. It’s all about, you know, right now, my necessity is not those shining stuff or things which I don’t need. But instead, I want to save up for what I may need or what I do need right now.
So, yeah, at start it was a shock, you know, for everyone. It took a bit of time to learn everything. For example, if you talk about travel, e-commerce and all these things, they really went down. And then, there are some, you know nations which are fluctuating a lot. You know, for example, you know, in initial days, I thought, you know, life insurance would do really great. I was talking to Ian about that as well. And Easter came and it went down and then now it’s going back up again.
So, yeah, these things keep on happening. But one thing I’d say is like, this is the time when we should promote offers or promotes stuff which is actually, you know, kind of like you – things which – where people can spend time on. For example, if you talk about, you know, all these entertainment-related stuff that’s doing really well. And then, you know, the things which people may need now or will need in the future for example insurance, mortgage and all that kind of, you know, offers. Yeah. That’s coming up.
Renz: That’s right. I mean what you’re saying basically is that, you know, the users or the audience, the consumers, even though they have shifted their behavior in terms of what they need, you guys have utilized this and taken advantage of this fluctuation as well. Is that right?
KJ: Yeah. It depends, you know. If one niche goes down another one is going up, so opportunity is always there. We have to just adapt to, you know, whatever’s going up and just [crosstalk].
Renz: Yeah. Absolutely.
About mindset & skillset
Ian: I agree. And that’s the reason why like when people talk about, “Oh, this niche is going down.” I’m like, “Dude, you’re in affiliate marketing. You can literally shift from one vertical to another,” right? And this is why I always try to tell people like, “Dude, you have the skillset. Move it over to another niche.” There’s a lot of people…
Renz: That’s right.
Ian: And I’ve seen this, like people were only so good at Plenty of Fish back in the day and dating. And they couldn’t take that skill set and move it over to like finance or how is Leadgid, right? So you see this in and out these affiliates that come in and out because they’re just stuck on – they’re so comfortable or they don’t understand that, “Dude, you have the skill set,” right? “To just move it to another platform.”
Renz: Exactly. I mean to all the listeners right now, this is very, very, crucial information. Make sure to diversify. Don’t just focus into one – I mean one vertical, right? I mean Ian, KJ, you guys have seen a lot of things in the industry over the years. So, it is something very, very, essential to, you know, be adaptable and, you know, try to move into other directions and not just one offer, right?
KJ: You know, the thing is – sorry Ian. The thing is when affiliate – for an affiliate, when something is making money, they don’t, you know, they’re so like into their comfort zone that they don’t want to go out and learn more things. They just want to focus on one thing. It is good. It helps you to scale up. But it doesn’t leave any space for you to learn anything else. So, I think there should be a balance. Yeah.
Ian: Yeah. I definitely second that for sure. But the thing is just going back to your topic earlier just the fact that, it’s good to diversify. But we definitely should spend 100% on, let’s say Nutra, understand it. And then automate it, systemize it and then be like, “Okay. Let me take this and then start doing the skills – start doing the same thing on mortgage or, you know refine, you know. Cuz you’re only gonna be spending may be 10-20% on that first campaign anyway. And now you have the time to spend it on refile, Leadgen or whatever. Alright? And then once that’s automated, then you can go into dating, right? So, you want to basically do the most – the least amount of work after you’ve mastered the most amount of work. Right? So…
What offers they’re running right now
Renz: Talking about, you know, different verticals, let’s give our listeners some – maybe some juicy insights. So, yeah, what kind of verticals – what kind of offers have you been promoting lately in light with the coronavirus pandemic?
Ian: Yeah. So, most of my stuff has been software VSL lately, a little bit of dating. I’ve shifted a lot away from the sweeps, the adult dating. I have also done, finance, Leadgen more recently, so I’m trying to get more of what people need. Like more of like, “Oh, I need more cash or, I need help or,” you know. I’ve also done VSL for doing stuff at home, like – there’s like woodworking on ClickBank which is doing pretty damn well which is [bad word] weird. But, doing that, and – yeah, that’s pretty much what I’m currently running. And then, I have my regular software’s that I’m also running which I’ve been doing very well in the past. I do a lot of SaaS it’s because there are reoccurring commissions on it.
Renz: That’s pretty cool. How about you KJ? What kind of offers are you currently running?
KJ: Well, right now, I’m running refinance, that’s one of them. And then, apart from that, a little bit about like how to make money online and that – those kind of offers. And then there is like, you know, saving up on your bills and all that for example Uswitch and stuff like that that’s doing really well for me. And, yeah, apart from that, a little bit about, you know, funding related, like a business funding’s and all that – a little bit about that. That’s a campaign I’m working on, yeah.
Renz: That’s pretty interesting. I think you talked about that on your presentation, right? For the Virtual Summit, right?
KJ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Renz: Cool. That’s pretty cool. Yeah. Ian, what kind of ad formats are you, you know, running your offers? What trending ad formats are currently available?
Ian: I’ve been mostly doing Native and Push the past three years just because I think its way more easier to buy at the CPC level than deal with Google’s and Facebook’s constant changes. So, a lot of my topic actually had been push and more so native, it’s just much easier.
Renz: KJ, is Push dead? I mean this is one question that I pretty much get every single day. You know, it’s insane. Where are we at? Where’s Google ad? How are we doing right there?
KJ: You know, it’s funny. The same question I get asked, is affiliate marketing dead? So, I see, you know, yeah, so it’s almost the same question. Is Push dead or affiliate marketing dead? They’re all this… You know, it is still there. It’s still making money. You can still take advantage of it, but yeah. Volumes may decrease with time but of course, it’s still alive and people are making money with it. And I’m running some campaigns myself so I can tell you that, yeah, it’s still there. I think Ian knows what kind of stuff I’m running, so yeah.
Ian: Yeah. I even – I think of that for sure. Like even – like Google Chrome 81 just came out over Google Chrome 80 which Chrome 80 was supposed to stop the push, but Push notifications are still going out. And Google understands that sites, alerts, apps, they need these alerts. And Chrome OS depends on their alert system as well.
So, I don’t think it will go away. It will definitely be filtered like how pops in the past had been filtered in the past. So, Push is technically like the new pop. I’ve been talking – saying this for three years already and people think it’s more like – it acts more as native. But I definitely think it acts way more like pop just the way – just the fact that it’s new, it’s young and it’s also going to be controlled by the browsers and even – and Google.
KJ: It would be like regulated but it’s still going to be there.
Ian: I think.
Offers & CPA Networks
Renz: Right. Absolutely. Ian, I mean in terms of offers and in terms of what ad formats your offers are working. Where are you getting your offers from? I mean obviously you’re working with affiliate networks and CPA networks. Would you mind sharing a couple of, you know, good ones that, you know, we can share to our audience?
Ian: Yeah. So, I used DMS or it used to be W4. I worked with them for a long time. I worked directly with [Fluent 28:33]. If I need cap, then I go to ClickDealer or more if anything to rotate them in. Then there is sort of the Aviasales, ClickBank, MaxWeb. Then there are other networks, would be working as well, so. I mean there’s a lot. I would suggest for affiliates to really just go through Offervault.com and check those out. If you want eCommerce, just GiddyUp and Verve. I mean I’ve known those guys for a long time as well too. But I’m just like the typical affiliate where if my affiliate manager moved from one affiliate network to another, I technically just follow him around, right?
Ian “follows” his account manager
Renz: Oh, really?
Ian: Yeah. Just because I trust him already that he will take care of me. And I’ve done that over the past years just because we have that relationship, right? So technically it’s not the affiliate network but more so my personal connections that I’ve made in the past. You know what I mean? So, like I know people that [crosstalk].
Renz: No. I have to agree.
Ian: Yeah. So…
Renz: I really have to agree because – I mean I am, you know, basically a senior account manager at Propeller. And that connection with your partner is very crucial. What about you KJ? Do you have the same experience? I mean where do you get your offers from and do you have the same exact opinion about, you know, having a steady account manager?
KJ: Well, I work with DMS and a few networks Ian mentioned and also clickbait. And apart from that, I work with – in finance side, I usually work with direct advertisers. The reason is on affiliate networks, the payouts are way low. For example, if I’m getting, you know, directly if I’m getting $40, on CPA networks I’ll be getting $20-$15.
So, it’s a massive gap. So for that reason, I try to, you know, go direct with the advertisers or work with these entry networks. And apart from that, yes, personal relationships are important, you know. With your affiliate manager or your traffic source – on your traffic source – your account manager, these are the two most important people you should be comfortable with. And if you’re not comfortable with them and you don’t trust them or they don’t trust you, things do not work out. So, yeah, definitely.