Ian: I agree. It’s just kind of hard like nowadays just because like – just like after ABF, a lot of people – I’m sure KJ gets – got hit up a lot too and I got hit up. And then I’m like, “Ugh, I really don’t wanna start a new relationship. I don’t wanna go on a new date. I have a network I’m working with.” You know what I mean? So, it’s like, “Do I really wanna take you out to dinner right now? No.” So…
Renz: That’s really awesome. But what about the offers that you’re currently running? Do you guys use relevant stuff in regards to the coronavirus? I mean what’s your take on this? Should affiliates use such creatives?
Ian: I think, so for me, I tested that scenario and it didn’t really work out more so just because I know a lot of push network have been very strict on how you do your advertising, mentioning any type of viral disease, Corona, healing, and all that other shit.
So, I kinda just tell them directly on the ad on what they’re gonna be receiving once they click through. Which is pretty much how I think should work anyway. Using the trend of fun scare tactic now, it just doesn’t work just because I think everybody’s pretty informed. The news are already bombarding you with so much information that they just don’t wanna see anymore I think.
Renz: Exactly. What was the weirdest thing that you’ve seen in terms of creatives, KJ?
KJ: Somewhat mentioning, you know, they found a coronavirus cure and what not on AdPlexity, I was looking at those ads. So that’s the weirdest thing like, you know. You don’t wanna stoop yourself that low in pursuit of profits. That’s something silly.
Renz: That’s true.
Ian: Yeah. I mean I agree with that because – just because I was one of those affiliates back in the day.
What can we expect in the coming months?
Renz: I mean, you know, it is something temporary. But what can we expect within the next, let’s say a couple of months? Should affiliates go with this route or should we keep on, you know, promoting trending offers with basically the same or even something non– totally non-relevant to coronavirus?
Ian: I mean, definitely do things that are trending for sure. I mean trending, things will help you get that or recoup your revenue faster. But obviously, the things that are doing more like finance, creative or loans or things like that can help over the long time, well, it’ll help suffice your revenues as well. Like, I’ve do a lot of SaaS. You know what I mean? Just because it’s easier. People want it.
I am actually interested in – on these offers too, you know, their services like where I promote Envato themes and cold candy stuff and be the things that people will want not today, they’ll probably want it nine months later, right? But there are also things like UV light for your fucking phone which can be things that they need now but, why not need later, right? So…
Renz: That’s true. I mean we’ve seen it like within a, you know, in our traffic. I mean I’ve seen a lot of ads about, you know, streaming, you know, platforms, fitness apps. A lot of apps have gone. So, I mean it’s all about trend, right? Doesn’t mean that, you know, offers today will be the same exact trending ones tomorrow or even in three months or in four months. So, it’s actually very important.
KJ: You know, if you’re an affiliate and you don’t know how to adopt the new trends or adopt new changes, you’re not going to survive. So, you have to learn this to adopt new changes, so yeah. You have to, you know, adopt with it.
Renz: Exactly.
Ian: Yeah. And I mean just to go back to the topic I was saying like where affiliates were like, “Oh, they only know Plenty of Fish.” And they can’t move or, you know, shift to, you know, make money at home, right? They have the skillset, they just don’t know how to take that skill set over to another vertical.
Renz: That’s so true. What about – I mean, again, within the coming months, what kind of verticals – what kind of offers do you see – do you predict that are going to be, you know, having their turn?
Ian: KJ, you can start with that.
KJ: Well, thanks. Business opportunity. People are going to lose jobs and they will be looking for online, you know, all this stuff. And apart from that, anything digital. I mean we talk about – we are talking about apps and all that. For example, business services, maybe finance, look at – right now on affiliate networks, refinance and all those offers are capped out. There’s going to be tons of stuff related to funding, loans, and stuff. So that’s going to really boost out. And it’s already has started actually.
Renz: Right.
Ian: Yeah. For me, I think I’ve seen – I have – I’m actually working on this one campaign where I’m doing a two-step on…
Renz: Tell us all about it.
Ian: Well, it’s – I saw an offer on Admitad. And Admitad has this offer where they do – or no, I saw it in a ShareAsale and Admitad had this program on LinkedIn for premium for $10 payout. And I was like, “Oh, I wonder if I can help people readjust their resumes for remote work,” right? And then, apply for LinkedIn $10 ads and then probably help them apply for a remote job, whatever.
So that was the scenario I was thinking in my head just because I saw this resume program on ShareAsale. And I was like, “Oh, people will definitely need this later on for sure because we’re gonna be trending in a remote environment maybe for all of this year.” So, people will need to shift their resumes into remote verbiage, right? And then, they can use it for LinkedIn to advertise their resume or profile or whatnot, right? So that’s what I was thinking. So, I was gonna plan on – I was working, do it like two weeks ago but I have all these other crap I’m doing, so…
Renz: That’s some interesting insight right there guys. I mean come on, let’s be real.
KJ: And here’s another thing on Admitad and CJ.com. There are tons of coupon offers. Like you get coupons for all the windows. Actually, before coronavirus, I was promoting Emirates Airlines through them. It was given a 10% discount on your flight and everything. So, they have tons of, you know, for which you can get the discount codes and you basically promote their discounts. And I think that can still work really well, because people are trying to save money. And, yeah, you can promote that.
Mistakes to avoid
Renz: I mean, talking about, you know, what you guys are currently running or, you know, you’re focusing your shift into. What verticals or what offers – looking back to it now a couple of months ago, would you not, you know, have run? I mean in terms of mistakes that have been taken or, you know, what kind of offers would you not run now?
KJ: Travel. Accommodations.
Renz: Ian?
Ian: Like, right now, yeah, I would agree with like travel, accommodation, you know, things like that nature, leisure, sporting goods, you know. Things like that would not – obviously, work now. Nobody’s leaving their house or nobody’s traveling. Nobody’s, you know, people are now trying to either be entertained, trying to revisit their skill set, trying to relearn something new. So, right now is a time of self-development versus…
Renz: That’s so true.
Ian: Then like, “Oh, I’m being entertained by like physical things like travel and sporting goods,” and things of that nature, I think. Right? But even like my eCommerce stuff I’ve done in the past during – like in, let’s say, January, February, March – probably March wasn’t even doing that well, I think. And that’s when I like, “Okay. I think I need to shift to more digital stuff.”
Renz: That’s nice. KJ, if you could travel back, I mean talking about that, if you could travel back in time, what kind of advice would you give to yourself, let’s say a couple of months ago?
KJ: I don’t know, man. That’s a tough question. I can’t think of any advice I would give myself because – look, you make mistakes and you learn from them. And if you don’t make any mistakes, you don’t learn anything. So, yeah, no regrets at all.
Ian: Yeah. Exactly. That’s the perfect answer. Like I hate – I kinda do not like that question just because the fact that I wouldn’t be where I’m at today without those trips and failures and falling. I made, you know, I sold a company and then I only stayed in it for like a year because the VP wanna do something wrong. Like, learning all these things and failures, right?
And I wouldn’t be here today if I didn’t – if I decided, “You know what, let me just stick to my and only have one job, right? But then, I took the risk and be like, “You know what. I got already two jobs, maybe I can do with this last third job, right? And I understand risk-taking is very difficult for a lot of people. But my personality, like if I have one dollar in my bank, I’m the type of person who’ll be like, “Oops, I’m not gonna eat. How do I flip this one dollar?” you know.
Renz: I have the same exact mentality man. I agree totally with you. The only way is forward. And that’s very accurate, right?
Ian: I agree. Yeah.
KJ: Yeah. And if you don’t take any risks, you can’t do anything. You can’t make money if you don’t take risks.
Renz: That’s right. And we’re not just talking about affiliate marketing. We’re talking about in general.
Ian: People just get scared and – I mean I see this all the time. What happened?
Renz: Oh, I was saying that, you know, we’re not just talking about mistakes of the past or moving forward with affiliate marketing but also in general. In general, in life that’s how it’s supposed to be.
Ian: Yeah. Correct. Business, I mean I’ve run multiple businesses, right? I mean doing my stuff with my Amazon as well right now too but it’s all learning phase. I had to learn how to outsource properly. I had to learn how to do email marketing. I had to learn how to code, right? So, these are the things that when I first started I had to learn because there were no resources online, right? But now there’s so much resource online that you should be able to pick a skill literally within a week, right? Like when I first go to Amazon, like I literally watched YouTube for one week and I literally became a master at it, right? Whereas people, they just consume information but they don’t wanna move a mouse, you know.
KJ: That’s one more thing. Like if you keep on learning and learning that’s bad too. Take action. Learn something and then take action. Try it out.
Ian: Exactly.
Renz: And this is why I think, you know, our audience should really consider, you know, thinking about getting in, you know, being more involved into affiliate marketing cuz it has – it provides you guys a lot of freedom and a lot of, you know, access, right?
About teaching other people
Ian: Yeah. I agree. The thing is, when I try to teach people or show people how to do marketing online. I always try telling them, “Hey dude, you wanna make this product? Why don’t you do this as an affiliate first?” Right? “So then, you understand how to actually do the marketing.” And I hate these questions like, “Oh, I have this product, but how do I market it?” I’m like, “Dude, you’re a [bad word] idiot. Like what’s the point of having a product when you don’t know how to market?” Right?
Affiliate marketing teaches you the building block of how to buy ads, create copy, be creative, come up with angles. Like, it’s such a bottom tiered marketing but damn, so it’s a platform to really learn or climb this ladder. And I talked about this in one of my videos where affiliate marketing is such a bottom tiered marketing venture, but it teaches you how to go so much further than starting as an email marketer or starting as an e-com product online, right?
Renz: That’s so true, man. I mean KJ, I know that you’re doing coaching through your website. Are you facing such kind of, you know, perhaps questions or doubts from, you know, people that are looking into getting into affiliate marketing?
KJ: Well, they come. So, sometimes people come who, you know, who just want a push-button formula or something for like that. That’s not an ideal people. But apart from that, yes, people sometimes, you know, have these problems where they keep – they want to keep on trying things. They don’t actually, you know, like let’s say I want to start an e-com store. I tried. I failed. And I lost everything.
First, you need to study the market. First, you need to, you know, start as an affiliate as Ian said. Or at least try to understand what you’re selling. If I don’t know what I’m selling, how am I going to actually sell it to somebody else? If I don’t know my product, I can’t sell it. Simple as that.
So, you have to know your product first of all. You have to know how it works and everything and lingo as well in that. For example, what are its features? Where – what are the unique selling points of my offer or my product? How it’s, you know, better than the other offers? And if you don’t understand these small things – the thing is, sometimes we think that we know all this but we don’t actually implement it in all campaigns. And that’s where the biggest problem is, so yeah.
Renz: I think, you know – sorry.
Ian: That is definitely so true.
Renz: I mean this is one of the key factors is that everyone should like do their research, background. Just follow the trend in most cases, right? I mean you see what’s going on. You see what kind of offers are currently, you know, are being promoted by CPA networks and here and there where budgets are being allocated, so yeah. I mean as we said there are tons and tons of information for affiliates to have access to right now. And it’s – I mean I guess coronavirus has also provided some sort of silver lining in the industry of affiliate marketing.
Ian: Like, I mean it does. I mean affiliate marketing I think – the reason why affiliate marketing can’t die is because we’re brokers. Like, we’re broker technically, right? And people need sales brokers. Cuz people hate paying for sales teams. You know what I mean? So, that’s the reason why I don’t think we’ll ever die. It will get harder for sure. Like I’m – I remember just putting up a Justin Bieber ring tone and I was just making money just off this [bad words].
Renz: What?
Ian: Yeah. And that was on Google ads search tech, right? So it’s crazy back in the day. That’s how old, I’m sorry guys.
KJ: Yeah. But affiliate marketing is a bridge between the customer and the product. It can’t advertise – like, it’s just like you’re saying in real estate. Real estate agents, they lose jobs or they can’t be there. Lawyers won’t be there. It’s the same. We are kind of, like, you know, we are the people who connect the problem and the solution. It just depends on how you look at it.
Upcoming conferences
Renz: That’s so true. What about conferences guys? Have you, you know, set schedules of which events you would’ve gone to? Like for example, we’re closing into the summertime. We all know that we have Affiliate World, east in Barcelona. But I think that was canceled, right?
Ian: Yeah. It was canceled. Yeah.
KJ: Yeah. Affiliate World canceled.
Renz: Are you guys looking, you know, looking forward, are you guys predicting that, you know, most – such events, such conferences will also be online as well?
Ian: Yeah. The problem is – what I’m seeing is there’s a lot of online webinars online, learning. And this is making a lot of confusion for a lot of people. I mean the confidence – you can’t beat – well, for me. You can’t beat the physical, you know, meetups, and person-to-person. Like, it’s crazy because even at ABF which we just finished, excuse me.
I actually was busy for that whole week. And I was – I actually was like, “Oh, my God. How the [bad word] am I so busy?” I’ve never – I never left my house, you know? So, it was so interesting. The only problem with these conferences, what I’ve noticed just from ABS that everybody came to me, everybody probably went to KJ, right? But there was no me going to somebody else or new traffic or no me meeting a new affiliate to have a standard conversation or coffee with.
Like, you know, when I saw KJ at AWA, we met a bunch of new people and we just hanged out before the conference started and people just gathered, right? And we started chatting. So that’s one aspect that I do miss. But the conferences, definitely – I would definitely go in virtual. But how do you make the interaction feel like a conference? How do speakers like myself, KJ and – find people instead of people coming to us? Like it’s fine people coming to us. It’s just, how do we leverage both sides, right?
Renz: That’s right.
KJ: And it’s not more personal. Like when we attend conferences, most of the times our purpose is to go and see everybody, right? That’s why we attend conferences, to meet your friends or the people we have been talking online. And, yeah, with the virtual, there’s nothing like that because we have been talking anyways.
Renz: That’s right.
Ian: It’s true.
Renz: Speaking of AWA that – the last – this – what was, December actually in Bangkok that was the first time that I’ve seen KJ. And, I remember this very vividly. I remember – I mean he came by to PropellerAds booth, right? And, you know, we started chatting with you and you asked me some questions. And at one point, I was so fucking tired I was like – I’m sorry. I don’t know if you remember. But I was like so tired at the end of that, man. It was just crazy. I mean such conferences are so amazing to be, you know, to be attending to. I mean young affiliates, experienced, I mean everyone’s going to be there.
And that vibe of being, you know, at this conference and even outside of it, you know, different events that are being held by, you know, various companies, CPA networks or whatnot. It has a different vibe, right guys? It’s something else.
Ian: Yeah.
KJ: Yeah. Like us talking virtually is different as compared to – we mentioned, you know, Bangkok and after that the – all the conversations that’s totally different. So, of course, there is a personal vibe in it.
Ian: Yeah. I can’t be like, “Hey guys. Let’s go get dinner, and let Propeller pay for it.”
About other projects
Renz: Let me just ask you a little bit about what’s next for you guys. So, like Ian, I know that you have your podcast, right? What other projects are, you know, lined up for you for this year?
Ian: So, I kinda want to merge out of the traditional campaign and I wanna focus on the Advengers and I wanna focus on more, probably blog affiliate building. This way instead of having a one-page site I actually have a full site, an asset site, or a full affiliate asset site. It just – all offers every post has an affiliate link in it. And this way it can be sold or moved out later.
Like, the crazy thing is I tell myself this all the time but I don’t listen to myself. Because affiliate marketing just pulls me in. It just makes so much money in one day, you know? So, I do wanna get in that direction. And I’ve also been focusing on my Amazon. I’ve had my reselling business which is going through Amazon, FBA, FBM, and eBay and all that. I do consulting as well which is very, very expensive for me just because I try to filter a lot of people out because sometimes – I’m a very impatient person, right?
If you don’t know what you’re talking about, I feel like I’m getting retarded by the minute. So I’m like, “Nah, I can’t work with you.” And sometimes I even give the money back because like, “Dude, I can’t deal with some of your off employees,” right? So, for me, it’s just trying to better myself. I kinda – I’m not sure if I even want to travel again or – I mean I’m just very confused. I take life day by day, right? That’s all I can do, right? Planning for the future, I get so confused. Right? And I’m like, “I don’t wanna do this.” And by the time I do it like, “Whatever.” Right?
Like when I was having three jobs, I didn’t have time to think. You know what I mean? So, I just had to make sure I was eating every day, paying my rent by the end of the month, right? So that was my focus – the short-term focus is I think from back in the days I think what has given me the opportunity to become a high-speed affiliate to think pretty much rapidly, you know?
Renz: That’s the hustle, man. I mean that’s what I’m talking about right there. I mean all of our listeners right now, you are guys, listening to some of the best super affiliates in the industry. And make sure to tune into this podcast and listen to it over and over just to squeeze in all of those insights. KJ, I know as I said, you know, you’ve been coaching through your website. What else is there? I mean, you know, loop us in into what else is in line for you as well.
KJ: Well, I’m working on a project where my focus is to help my prospects as well – as much as possible. It is ready to build and stuff like have you – basically, what we are trying to do is to compare all the deeds for them and then choose the best deals for them without any hassle or anything. So that’s one of my biggest project I’m working on. And, yeah, that’s pretty much it.
It’s – as Ian said, you know, when you have campaigns going on, it’s really hard to focus on these. I have been struggling with that as well but I’m slowly, you know, making a progress and working on it. But, yeah, coaching and stuff, you know, I do this because it helps you to learn a lot. Because whether you’re helping somebody else, you’re actually learning from the mistakes they’re making as well even if they are newbie mistakes, they are some, you know, something you, you know, learn from them.
And then, there are some people who – actually I had a, you know, network owners, like advertising network owners come to me for consulting and everything. So, you know, you learn from other people as well. But, yeah, that’s – my biggest project right now is to work on the one I mentioned and to get it going. Yeah.
Renz: That’s super great guys. I mean thank you so much. The time went fast. I was like, we were planning on like a 45-minute, you know, session. But like that was pretty good.
Ian: Yeah. It’s almost like an hour. It’s pretty good.
Renz: Yeah. Thank you so much guys. I really, really appreciate it and we’ll make sure to, you know, put in all of your social media accounts, all the details so that, you know, our listeners can tune in to you and, you know, follow you up on – over social media. And yeah, thank you so much for, you know, being with us today for our first ever podcast guys.
KJ: Well, thanks for inviting us.
Ian: Goodbye. Thank you. Yeah.
Renz: Alright. This is Renz from Propeller On-Air. Thank you so much and tune into our own social media platforms that would be Facebook, Instagram, Telegram, you name it. And, yeah, let’s see you guys on the next one.
